[ahand200]

Would be nice if jcreator implements a framework for creating GUI for both Swing/JFC and SWT.
heh, guess this post should have been in the Suggestions section :)

This post has been edited by ahand200: 16 March 2005 - 10:20 AM

[Biez]

I agree: To me, this is the only feature I really miss in JCreator, since planning a nice AWT or Swing layout eats up a considerable amount of time. Using GridBag Layout isn't exactly an easy thing to do, for example...

Biez

[MajinZ]

Using GridBag Layout isn't exactly an easy thing to do, for example...

Not at all :-P

Well, I like the idea... But I prefer to write the layout myself... When you let the IDE do the work for you, it will always generate code which you may not understand or something like that... Take Visual Cafe for example, really shitty code :-S

But sometimes, yes, I wish that JC would have that feature...

[midiman]

Yeah, it would be great to have this feature. Since JCreator is the BEST Win32 Java IDE out there written in all native code, having a native visual editor would be the bomb.

Currently I use netbeans to do visual layouts using their proprietary AbsoluteLayout scheme, change everything to GridBagLayout with the click of a button, and then open up the source files with JCreator. It's hard to go back to AbsoluteLayout after this step though.

If you have the GUI planned out well, you can work very effectively this way as Java is a PAIN to write GUI's by hand. If you get it 95 percent the way you want it in the other IDE, then you won't have to make so many changes to it once it's in a non-visual editor like JCreator.

I realize that having a visual editor is a complex problem to solve for a programmer of an IDE, but I've been using JCreator as a student and professional for about 4 years now and I've seen it come a long way. I have confidence that someone will figure it out soon.

[Abyzmic]

This would be a nice feature because that is one big gripe I have about Java is having to code the visual layout, recompile, run, only to realize something is a few pixels off of where I wanted it.

[MajinZ]

This would be a nice feature because that is one big gripe I have about Java is having to code the visual layout, recompile, run, only to realize something is a few pixels off of where I wanted it.

I love doing that :-)

After a while, you will make less mistakes, and then your able to construct a complete GUI application in a matter of minutes, just by using 'setBounds' or with the simple Layouts...

[CheezItMan]

I love doing that :-)

After a while, you will make less mistakes, and then your able to construct a complete GUI application in a matter of minutes, just by using 'setBounds' or with the simple Layouts...

It's the one quality I adore in .NET

[MajinZ]

It's the one quality I adore in .NET

And what 'qualities' in .NET don't you adore? ;-)

Personally, I love to code everything myself... That way the code I write is always easy to maintain...

But that's just me :-)

[E-E-R]

And what 'qualities' in .NET don't you adore? ;-)

Personally, I love to code everything myself... That way the code I write is always easy to maintain...

But that's just me :-)

I totally agree actually, I only program GUIs with a visual tool if I am in a really tight schema (which happens in 50% of our school projects, being a lazy student ;) )

[brucehsu]

As far as I know, another native IDE has a GUI editor too, its name is Visual Cafe.
But the GUI editor cause some problems in Visual Cafe.
First, the look of the interface won't look the same when you run the application.
Second, Visual Cafe added special tags in the code to realize this feature, if you delete them, the IDE won't be able to read the file.
I think it will be better if the Visual Editor in JC is written in Java , and run as a plugin of JC.
Or if they can solve the problems above, so the visual editor feature won't be a disaster.

Please correct me if something is wrong. :)

[MajinZ]

its name is Visual Cafe.

Visual Cafe generates really annoying code... Not very easy to maintain...

[supporter]

Well, I like the idea... But I prefer to write the layout myself... When you let the IDE do the work for you, it will always generate code which you may not understand or something like that... Take Visual Cafe for example, really shitty code :-S

Hi,

I think a Visual Editor is absolutely a MUST for every IDE to be competitive! I agree with the arguments that most of the products on the market produce code the programmer can't understand or that is formatted in a manner the programmer don't linkes.

But what about the way MS Visual Studio solves this problem with VB 6. Hide the code from the eyes of the programmer. The Code the Visual Editor produces could be seperated from other application code in seperate files, so programmers do not need to read this code as it is not necessary. If you have a good GUI Editor there is no need to adapt the produced code - VB 6 again shows this!

In the Java sector the way the Visual Studio .NET solves this problem could also be taken as a reference implementation...

[MajinZ]

You've got a good point there... So yes, it would be a nice feature... Maybe I'll even try working with it once it's implemented :-)

[supporter]

You've got a good point there... So yes, it would be a nice feature... Maybe I'll even try working with it once it's implemented :-)

Yes, but in VB it is a bit easier as you can't create e.g. buttons within the source code. In a programming language where you can do exactly this you must think about handling the code. But when "copiing" the MS Visual Studio ideas you are on the right side, I think!

What do others think about this?

[E-E-R]

Well, of course it is possible to do it the VB way, but that way, I do not think you can really influence the buttons work.

Think about extending the JButton class for example, I am unsure on how this should/could be implemented in a program that is written in C++.

Also I do not think it is really possible to completely extract the GUI from the sight of the programmer, and I am not really sure whether I want some program to manage the GUI for me... I am really paranoid about programs writing their own code :/

For me, this has very low priority.

[MajinZ]

For me, this has very low priority.

For me to... But there are many users who really want this feature, so let them have it :-)

I am really paranoid about programs writing their own code :/

I second that :-)

[cowboy]

I totally disagree with this being added :). If you're using a gui-maker tool, as part of a wider toolset, like for a games interface design or something then thats cool, just dont give it a programmer to use :)

Newbie programmers shouldnt be encouraged to click and drag their code so I'm well against this being added, it'll be a nightmare for the makers of JCreator to make anyway for sure, not that they couldnt do it, but why bother :) You're either a coder, seeing all the source, or a click and drag bunny :)

[Phil^]

I totally disagree with this being added :). If you're using a gui-maker tool, as part of a wider toolset, like for a games interface design or something then thats cool, just dont give it a programmer to use :)

Newbie programmers shouldnt be encouraged to click and drag their code so I'm well against this being added, it'll be a nightmare for the makers of JCreator to make anyway for sure, not that they couldnt do it, but why bother :) You're either a coder, seeing all the source, or a click and drag bunny :)

if its done as part of the pro version, i cant see too many java newbies using that.
plus if all it does is draw the JFrame, and lays out the buttons, and doesnt actually do event handling code for them - thats not all that bad is it?
it would be useful for me certainly, saves me drawing it out on paper what i want, then working out how to divide it up into JPanels, what layouts to use etc

[Maephisto]

Newbie programmers shouldnt be encouraged to click and drag their code so I'm well against this being added

right words!!

well maybe the idea to add this feature in the Pro version isn't bad... but i'm one of those who like to write every single line of code... it may take more time, but in this way everything is easy to mantain..

[supporter]

right words!!

well maybe the idea to add this feature in the Pro version isn't bad... but i'm one of those who like to write every single line of code... it may take more time, but in this way everything is easy to mantain..

But time is exactly the problem! "Time is money"...
As a GUI-Designer you always have to test many GUI designs and you don't have the time to code your Buttons to position x,y and reposition all other GUI-elements so that they optically fit to this new button position. You won't be as productive as you could be!

In VB for example you can quickly reposition your GUI elements to the position it looks best! Just try this by hand in your code... That won't work in adequate time!


But maybe VB is the wrong example as it isn't possible to create Buttons by Code and so GUI-code has not to be managed by the developer. My idea was to implement a similar concept so that developers don't have to think of their GUI-code, but can edit the appropriate files if necessary! Simply hide GUI-code from the eyes of developers, but if they like to let it appear...

Better example is the Visual Studio .NET as C# code is created by the integrated GUI designer, but can also be managed by developers if necessary.

The point is, that every developer has it's own coding-style and no GUI-designer will exactly produce code according to this style. So the simplest concept is to hide this code by the IDE so that developers don't need to read over this code and getting excited about the style...
VB shows exactly that it isn't necessary to know how a Button is "created". The Button is simply there on your Form and you can do the work you really need to do as a developer: simply code the "Response" on raised events and that's enough!